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Post by Matt Forbes on Jul 5, 2012 13:58:49 GMT -5
It will gain a lot of traction with the far left. Which, I thinkn may have been the point from the start.
it doesn't matter at this point. I'm going to take a few days to recuperate and process the last few days, then hit the ground running with new discussions on where we go from here, with or without the 99D.
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Post by frankleespeaking on Jul 5, 2012 14:40:15 GMT -5
Maybe some if the people responsible for it do some outreach, but who knows if that will happen, plus this group's reputation is pretty well damaged with the far left, so they'll have to overcome that as well.
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Post by indecankelly on Jul 5, 2012 19:53:57 GMT -5
The group's reputation is pretty damaged, and if the Steering Committee's past and convention performance is any indicator of their future potential (which it is), then I don't expect much more than a bubble of outreach, softer than the type of bubble that bubbles up after a fart underwater.
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Post by dunnnathan on Jul 6, 2012 1:29:31 GMT -5
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Post by kelley805 on Jul 6, 2012 4:02:13 GMT -5
All I foresee three things happening. 1. MP takes our results and massages it, maybe shortens it and presents it to the 3 branches of govt and then sues the federal govt after inaction of several months 2. 99D merges with MoveToAppend.org (discussions were held with Occupy but many are hostile to us) This is a good thing and allows pressure to be applied to the state legislatures for a Constitutional Convention. NOTE: We need only 3 more states to have a CC for a Balanced Budget Amendment. And the Constitution does not limit the CC to the original topic. 3. Many of you especially the ones that did not attend will continue to complain.
I hope we can take this new bond between delegates and forge a positive movement.
For example, we eliminated the word personhood. Instead we proposed "only individuals can contribute to political campaigns." Unfortunately the only way to keep the Supreme Court from ignoring legislation with this in it is to make this a Constitutional Amendment.
We also proposed "independent state commissions to set district boundaries". This will eliminate gerrymandering.
These were possibly the two biggest issues we tackled and I think the best compromise we could have achieved.
Mike K
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Post by jondenn on Jul 6, 2012 5:43:24 GMT -5
Hey Mike, Do you have any links to the "three states short" of an Article V? I'd like to study up. Lessig is holding another CCC conference at Harvard in September. I missed last year, but I think I will be going this year. Cheers, Jon
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Post by Mike Gentilucci on Jul 6, 2012 23:44:13 GMT -5
If that is correct we can't really be sure if the states will limit it to the original intent or not, and even if it is a balanced budget amendment doesn't do any good, and probably won't pass, but it would be a bad idea.
What I'd love to see is the people put the pressure on the states to call for a convention on Campaign Finance, or just a general call but with the scope outlined. ND has tried something like this. 6 states have issued calls for CU to be overturned...CA was just the 6th, but it wasn't a call for a Convention...just a toothless statement.
There are people who say the threshold for a Convention was reached as early as 1911. But I really think if we can get all the states that vocalized suport for MT in the recent SCOTUS decision to call for the same convention more or less at the same time, that will get Congress' attention...that's like 23 or something. Congress should act before long then.
We have a lot of work to do in a short amount of time now.
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Post by MG on Jul 6, 2012 23:46:53 GMT -5
Also Mr. Kelley, not sure who you're talking about, but certainly not me Mr. Tucker or Mrs. Mower. The LFGSD Committee does not complain. We fucking get shit done.
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Post by kelley805 on Jul 8, 2012 1:23:43 GMT -5
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Post by kelley805 on Jul 8, 2012 1:25:47 GMT -5
here is pdf of what some Occupiers have come up with. the cc 2.0 has a more normal document. Mike Attachments:
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Post by indecankelly on Jul 8, 2012 13:15:14 GMT -5
Mike, thanks for the share. Having read said opus, all I can say is, the clarity and meaning of said document can only reach an audience too doped on drinking the Kool Aid to even understand the can blather and stream of consciousness vomit that was committed to said piece of paper.
Course, that is being nice. In short: It sucks.
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Post by kjlowry on Jul 8, 2012 15:06:32 GMT -5
That must be from OWS, but it isn't from cc2.0 ! Just sayin', Kelly ... That no one should think of this as ours. kjl
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Post by kjlowry on Jul 9, 2012 0:36:04 GMT -5
The OWS document is so undigestible as to be entertaining...IMHO! KJL
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Post by kjlowry on Jul 9, 2012 0:43:12 GMT -5
All I foresee three things happening. 1. MP takes our results and massages it, maybe shortens it and presents it to the 3 branches of govt and then sues the federal govt after inaction of several months 2. 99D merges with MoveToAppend.org (discussions were held with Occupy but many are hostile to us) This is a good thing and allows pressure to be applied to the state legislatures for a Constitutional Convention. NOTE: We need only 3 more states to have a CC for a Balanced Budget Amendment. And the Constitution does not limit the CC to the original topic. 3. Many of you especially the ones that did not attend will continue to complain. I hope we can take this new bond between delegates and forge a positive movement. For example, we eliminated the word personhood. Instead we proposed "only individuals can contribute to political campaigns." Unfortunately the only way to keep the Supreme Court from ignoring legislation with this in it is to make this a Constitutional Amendment. We also proposed "independent state commissions to set district boundaries". This will eliminate gerrymandering. These were possibly the two biggest issues we tackled and I think the best compromise we could have achieved. Mike K Mike and all, I don't think MP will be doing much of anything with any of us. (Unless some of the trouble-makers are impersonating him again?) The evidence is copied from a statement he posted here: The99Declaration.org15 hours agoWhy I quit the 99D project. It was astonishing to encounter the type of anonymous person you meet hiding behind a computer screen and phony identities when you try to become active and change things these days. If you use a fake name you can say anything online without consequences. Such people do nothing except attack and criticize the people who actually get off the couch and try and change things. Even though the position of delegate was open to virtually anyone and they could have come to Philadelphia and try to do something constructive, these people just sniped, complained and contributed nothing except hate. I really admire the 90 delegates and volunteers who made the trip but its just not worth getting involved if a small group of people spend all their time trashing you.
I ran into these type of people early on back in October when I became involved as a pro bono attorney getting protestors out of jail. People like this are incredibly cynical and so full of rage that they spent their time tearing people down or trying to sabotage the project that hundreds of honest people worked on tirelessly. I was an easy target since I was a founder.
Despite their considerable efforts to ruin the project, the people who really helped got off their collective butts and raised almost $200,000 in ten months, held a national online election, organized and secured permits, held a march through Philadelphia on July 4th, rented the PA Convention Center where the Congress met, set up an effective agenda and electronic voting systems for the delegates, and then convened a new Continental Congress which will hopefully lead to others. This was supposed to be a first of a kind experiment that would lead to similar meetings of citizens organized to petition the government.
About 10 disgruntled, truly awful people undermined us every step of the way. As hard as we tried, you cannot work with them or believe anything they say because they have agendas, demand the impossible and many tried to use the project to selfishly make money which is pretty offensive given the stated goal of removing greed from politics. When I refused to allow them to further an unrelated agenda or make money off a non-profit project they targeted me personally. One group attempted to steal about $18,000 by trying to funnel money into another organization. Luckily I was able to prevent it at the last minute. Others remotely hacked into my computer and deleted all of the voter and candidate files right before the election. If I had not backed up the files, they would have derailed the election. One of them tried to extort me by demanding money and threatened to use "her contacts" to get the delegates "kicked out" of the convention center. Others used their web-based skills to shut down our webpage or sabotage us online. Some of them called and emailed the PA convention center staff and claimed to be me or part of the steering committee and attempted to cancel the event or change the dates of the event. You can't make this stuff up.
Just google my name and you will see all the time and energy Paul Smith, Teri Bidwell and Steve Scher (among others) have invested to destroy my reputation as a person and attorney because I foolishly tried to help a bunch of arrested college students start a not-for-profit group to draft a list of grievances against the government.
As a novice and someone who was never involved with activism or politics (no, I never "ran" for congress, my name was submitted with 32 others to be considered to fill Kirsten Gillibrand's congressional seat when she was appointed to the Senate) until Occupy Wall Street came along, this has been a tough learning experience and I would never do it again. When I finally resigned from the group I received dozens of emails from people who asked me to reconsider but the truth is, I left this project because of this person and the ten or so others she associates with who relentlessly went after me personally because they could not get their way. The astounding lies and smears they anonymously published [along with people like Steve Scher, Bill Schultz, Teri Bidwell (who is an expert on and has written a book about computer hacking), David Maruiello, Nancy Marcus of the "Bridge Foundation", Deborah Delaney, Justin Stone Diaz, Thom "Trucker Tom" Boes, Nanette Carter, Penelope Sietler, Scott Olsen, Michael Jude Hendricks (who stole our social media passwords), Jondean,Walwyn, Amber Bowman, Ember Hulett] all over the internet to wreck my reputation as a person and my legal career are simply shocking. I have no idea if these people used their real names because they worked from behind a computer screen and could be anyone.
Rest assured "Paula Smith", I will never raise another penny or use my time on projects like #OWS, the 99% Declaration or Continental Congress 2.0 again. You have proven that it's just not worth it. Now you may move onto the next good faith project and work to destroy it because that is what you do; you create nothing, you can only tear down others who actually try and make a difference.
MSP
KJ copied from: www.facebook.com/The99PercentDeclarationSOOOO ... Kelly and Matt and ?? Perhaps you might want to take over for him???
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Post by davidindc on Jul 9, 2012 6:33:06 GMT -5
?? would love to be involved in a brand new organization. The people he met in Philly were, almost to a one, good folk. The first meeting of the Electoral Reform subcommittee was exhilerating. It was the one time all week he felt like he was doing something he'd set out to do, lo those many months ago.
But not any endeavor associated with the 99% Declaration Working Group, Ltd.
This sounds emphatic: "Rest assured "Paula Smith", I will never raise another penny or use my time on projects like #OWS, the 99% Declaration or Continental Congress 2.0 again."
So did one or two (or 55) prior such emphatic statements.
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